De and het

[Geree]

As almost everybody there, I study Dutch too. But Dutch is not a "liked" language in Hungary, so I could not find a teacher. I study it from a dictionary which contains the pronounciation of the words, and from your site. It's not so difficult, but -you know- without a teacher, learning ONLY from books it's difficult... My promlem is I can't really "see through" the sentences. I can understand easier texts, but I can not create any. I think you can''t help me in this, just wanted to tell you.

But I have a question. Is there any rule for "HET" and "DE" (de kip, het hert). When have I use which? Have I learn it at every word, or there is some logic in it?

And an other: in numerals bigger than twintig, I think I have to use them this way: NuMbEr+en+twintig, for example. but the spelling of the number is the same as the NuMbEr smaller than 10? Hope you understand...

That's all, Thanx!

[Bieneke]

My promlem is I can't really "see through" the sentences. I can understand easier texts, but I can not create any. I think you can''t help me in this, just wanted to tell you.

Try the section about word order. Every time you come across a sentence part that you do not know, you can look it up. You do not have to make very complicated sentences to speak Dutch, just stick to simple phrases first. You will gradually be able to produce more complicated sentences (e.g. with subordinating, co-ordination clauses).

Is there any rule for "HET" and "DE" (de kip, het hert). When have I use which? Have I learn it at every word, or there is some logic in it?

No, there is hardly any logic to it. It is typically one of these things that you will make mistakes in, even if you have learned to speak the language fluently. There are a few guidelines though:
definite articles: de or het?

I answered your question about:
- numerals here.
- "Happy birthday" here.

[DominicCronin]

Hoi Bieneke,

About Het and De - of course, you are right, the only way to know these is to learn them, but as a learner of the language, sometimes the smallest thing can get you tongue-tied, so you have to have a strategy for guessing too!

Here's how I cope with De and Het, but perhaps other people can help to make this work better.

Firstly, of course, if you know which it is, give yourself a pat on the back (and remind yourself about how you remember it for the word in question - maybe it's a phrase, such as "Dit was HET weer, tot de volgende keer")

Next - anything in the diminutive is Het. "Het Biertje"!! Some very common words are pretty much always in this form, for example, het meisje.

Next - if in doubt, it's probably "De" - there are far more de words than het words.

Next - A lot of Het words are about grand and inanimate things, the forces of nature etc. Het weer, Het water etc. (This is a completely dodgy rule of thumb, but this is about improving your odds - toch?)

Next - if you're trying to form a sentence containing a word and you don't know whether it's het or de, have a go anyway - try to remember that you didn't know, and find out later, or just ask there and then. If you're going to ask, you should guess first, and then check.

HTH
D

[barbara]

Next - if you're trying to form a sentence containing a word and you don't know whether it's het or de, have a go anyway - try to remember that you didn't know, and find out later, or just ask there and then. If you're going to ask, you should guess first, and then check.

Lol, that is what I do all the time. When I have to say something quickly, I instantly forget everything I know about de and het words and just give it a go. Probably the only way to get it right eventually. I definitely made some progress over the years but I still make A LOT of mistakes .

[Tom]

I agree, when speaking you have to just go with your instincts and blurt it out. If you are a "Star Wars" fan, then "let the force be with you". If you like the "Nike" slogan, then "just do it".

When having a conversation, your goal is to communicate. Have you ever had a conversation with someone who spoke broken English? They may say something like "Whats the matter for you?". You know that it is not right, yet you understand what they meant and move on to listen to the rest of what they have to say. You let them get their idea across so the conversation can continue. If you stop them every few words with a correction, they will start to get too nervous and frustrated because the conversation is now turning into a test. That is why it is often best to speak with a Dutch teacher, because they know when and how often to make corrections and they understand patience.

I just say what comes into my head when speaking. I let the words come out whether they are right or wrong. I find that keeping a reasonable pace is more important. If you need a bit more time to remember a word than inject something like "hoe heet dat ook al weer" to keep the conversation moving. You can also describe it using other words. And then there is always "dat dinge" or "de dinges" ... Substitute something. What do you do when you cannot remember a word in English? You don't just stop. You figure a way out.

I have found that it is easier to learn whether the word is "de or het" by using it in a sentance so it is in some context. Learning them in isolation does not work for me at all. Also, I try to say them together in very rapid succession almost as if they were one word. If there is too long a pause between them, it just does not stick with me.

The other trick is to deliberately make the noun diminutive. b.v. Het appeltje. Or, if you can, you can sometimes get the same idea across using the plural, in which case it is always "de".

I sometimes "cheat" in this way when I speak.

Maybe that is part of why children learn languages faster. They don't care about making mistakes, they just talk. They worry more about getting their ideas across than speaking perfectly.

Cheers,
Tom

[Fiona]

Do most foreign words take het? Or is it just coincidence?

[Marco]

What a question, Fiona!

My guts say most foreign words take 'het', but I could be wrong. English abbreviations take 'de':
de cd, de dvd etc.

[DominicCronin]

Interesting suggestion. I've just done a search in Van Dale, and found some. Not sure if they all have foreign origins:

het account
het Abessinië (zijn alle landen mischien "het"?)
het abracadabra
het accent
het accident
het Achter-Indië (nog een land)
het acid house (leuk heh?)
het adieu
het affiche
het agenda (false friend - usually means diary)
het alarm
het Albanië
het Albion
het Algol
het alibi
het allegretto
het allegro
het aluminium
het Amerika

I've stopped at the middle of the A's - note that I was looking for het words and not for de words, so there may be some counter-examples. So far - names of countries are looking like a good candidate for a rule.

[Marco]

About the countries: we never use the article, like in English:

Amerika is groot
America is big

Nederland is een gezellig land
Holland is a cosy country

Exceptions to that:
de Oekraïne (Ukraine)
de Verenigde Staten (the United States)

[Marco]

I know a funny book about Dutch mistakes:

"Slipje van de sluier"

About Dutch 'taalkronkels'.

[BigBadBill]

the longer i spend in the office the easier it is getting, i am going to spend some time at Linguarama at soesterberg to improve my conversation. at the moment my brain cant seem to work fast enough to hold a decent conversation.

the best thing is the company are paying for the taal cursus.

BBB

[Bieneke]

About the countries: we never use the article, like in English:

Amerika is groot
America is big

Nederland is een gezellig land
Holland is a cosy country

Exceptions to that:
de Oekraïne (Ukraine)
de Verenigde Staten (the United States)

True, we generally do not use articles before country names but consider the following examples:

Het Indonesië van mijn vader (Indonesië, zoals het was toen mijn vader er woonde).
'The' Indonesia of my father (Indonesia as it was when my father lived there).

Het België van weleer (België, zoals het vroeger was).
'The' Belgium of the old days (Belgium, the way it used to be).

We only use an article before a country name if the phrase implies more 'instances' of the same country.

E.g. 'het Amerika van vandaag' (America today) suggests that there is also another America, for example America in the old days.

[DominicCronin]

De verenigde staten is plural, so I suppose that accounts for that one, but I guess the Ukrainians are just special!

[barbara]

That's the way to do it! Good luck & have fun. Always good to be surrounded by people who speak your level of Dutch

[Bieneke]

Wow, great that you can do the Linguarama course for free. I think it would have costed you quite a bit, judging from the info on their website. That shows that your employer really appreciates you!

It must be tiring to communicate with your colleagues in Dutch all the time when you do not understand half of what they are saying. Still, I admire your commitment to speaking Dutch as many people would simply stick to English. When you finish the course at Linguarama, do let us know how you liked it! It could be helpful to other people on this forum looking for a good Dutch course.

Groetjes,
Bieneke